Scriptural Support
 |
| Council of Nicea |
The following post was made in conjunction with a series of YouTube podcast episodes on the Julie Rowe Show. We have since released a book detailing this doctrine from a more comprehensive approach.
Multiple Estate doctrine was removed by Catholic translators and transcriptionists during the Constantine overhaul and recapitulation of our Catholic bible as we know it. Some authors and scholars refer to modern Christianity as “Pauline Christianity”, suggesting the differences in original Christianity that were introduced by Paul for essentially political purposes (See The Lost Gospel). Anyway, precious gems of the doctrine remain in the canon and passed through Constantine alterations undetected. I offer the following scriptures as evidence:
- John 9:2 “And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?” How is a man able to sin before he is born?
- Matthew 16:14-15 “Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets”. Why did the people even consider that a living person could be someone who had already died?
- John 1:19-25 “And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?” Pause right there. Why are they asking the already famous John the Baptist who he is? What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? The JST version says that John denied them NOT when they asked if he was Elias.
- Doctrine and Covenants 27:7 “…and his name should be John, and he should be filled with the spirit of Elias” Of course this could be a metaphor that John would have a similar spirit or mission to that of Elias, but the direct language could also be an unmistakable pronunciation that John and Elias are the same person.
- There are two references to Christ’s “condescensions” in the Book of Mormon, emphasizing the plural sense of the word, indicating that the spirit of the Savior lived among men in the flesh more than once (2 Nephi 9:53; Jacob 4:7)
- Joseph Smith Matthew Look at the pronouns that were used about the apostles. Christ speaks to his apostles in the first half of the chapter in third person (they, them, etc). The second half he switches to first person (you), as if to suggest, those present would each be on the earth in new mortal identities during those turbulent times in the Latter-days. This also indicates premortal covenants to be alive at certain turbulent times, which indicates Elohim’s trust in these individuals.
- Why was Jesus unrecognized as a resurrected being by those who loved and knew him best? (see Luke 24:16; John 21:7; John 20:15 as examples). I have always supposed that Jesus concealed his identity from his disciples, in something like a spiritual cloak or veil, which could be true. But why would he do that? It is easier for me to believe they didn’t recognize him, because he was a resurrected being with likely similar but different enough physical features, which were perhaps from a his premortal appearance or a combination of his mortal probations. I do not feel the Savior was resurrected in the body of his estate as Jesus Christ, which was only one of many of the bodies he inhabited (the word body is referred to as a ‘robe’ in various scriptures, denoting the fact that bodies can be worn like a change of apparel. See Ascension of Isaiah. This is supported by temple language when specific individuals are told which identity [body/robe] to go down in).
- Doctrine and Covenants 132:22-25 “For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.
25 Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law.”
- Psalm 71:20 – “Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth”
Additionally, while technically not scripture, there are apocryphal records that are also supportive of the doctrine of multiple probations. The Ascension of Isaiah is a volume of scripture that should have been included in our bible and was deliberately chosen by Constantine or those at his appointed council of Nicea to be excluded. It powerfully teaches the doctrine of condescension which is closely tied to multiple probations. Isaiah’s vision of heaven was so much before its time that King Manasseh had Isaiah sawn in half, or as put in the Doctrine and Covenants, “sawn asunder”. The Mentinah Archives is another valuable Book of Mormon apocryphal record.
NOTES PART II
Eternal Round – For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round. (Doctrine and Covenants 3:2)
Creations – And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever; And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep? Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. And he heard a loud voice; and the heavens were veiled; and all the creations of God mourned; and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent; and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory; And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest (Moses 7:30-31, 36, 56, 64).
Estates – And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him (Abraham 3:26, 28)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day (Jude 1:6 )
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits (Romans 12:16)
Probations Already familiar with this doctrine
And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? (1 Nephi 15:31-32)
2 Nephi 2:21, 30
And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.
Mormon 9:28
Be wise in the days of your probation; strip yourselves of all uncleanness; ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts, but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and living God.
Doctrine and Covenants 29:43
And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;
NOTES PART II
Eternal Round – For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therefore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round. (Doctrine and Covenants 3:2)
Creations – And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever; And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep? Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also, and among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren. And he heard a loud voice; and the heavens were veiled; and all the creations of God mourned; and the earth groaned; and the rocks were rent; and the saints arose, and were crowned at the right hand of the Son of Man, with crowns of glory; And there shall be mine abode, and it shall be Zion, which shall come forth out of all the creations which I have made; and for the space of a thousand years the earth shall rest (Moses 7:30-31, 36, 56, 64).
Estates – And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first. And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him (Abraham 3:26, 28)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day (Jude 1:6 )
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits (Romans 12:16)
Probations Already familiar with this doctrine
And they said unto me: Doth this thing mean the torment of the body in the days of probation, or doth it mean the final state of the soul after the death of the temporal body, or doth it speak of the things which are temporal? (1 Nephi 15:31-32)
2 Nephi 2:21, 30
And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.
Mormon 9:28
Be wise in the days of your probation; strip yourselves of all uncleanness; ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts, but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and living God.
Doctrine and Covenants 29:43
And thus did I, the Lord God, appoint unto man the days of his probation—that by his natural death he might be raised in immortality unto eternal life, even as many as would believe;
NOTES PART III – Coming Soon
Besides gaining a testimony when I read through the Book of Mormon when I was in my twenties there was another book called “There is No Death” that affirmed the testimony that I had about the truthfulness of the Church. The lady that wrote the book talked about reincarnation and how it was false. She also explains about animals and insects being different from a human creation. Her explanation to someone who believes that they have lived past lives is that we will only have one body and one life. The reason that they may have some knowledge about someone in the past and can talk about their life and even remember their emotions and memories is because they had been their guardian angel and experienced all that that person had. Most of the time guardian angels are family or maybe just two people that were very close friends pre-mortally that were given permission to be the guardian of the other. Another thing that can explain the knowledge of the past is that before each of us came physically to earth we knew and saw and were very aware of the events on earth from even the creation of it to the present and after we die we will still be aware of the continuing events.
Personally I believe in past probations but just not on this earth.
I have continued my journey from that NDE book and read many more since and it seems that I progressed in knowledge from that all the way to Julie. Each one has given me different and more detailed information but multiple probations on this earth hasn’t resonated with me and I will talk with Father about it and even fast about it too.
One question I want to ask if Julie can give more information about Native American tribes and what she sees happening with them and their land when tribulations begin. I am Navajo and I am pondering on whether it would be best for my family to plan on gathering at the family home there or staying in the town where we live and gathering with our church family. Thank you.
Hi Eric, after listening to the four podcasts you did with Julie about multiple probations, I felt really good. It was a genuinely uplifting listen.
I like how you point to several scriptures to support this doctrine here on your website. I can clearly see how they all pertain to the ideas you and Julie discussed.
However, in trying to square these ideas with my current understanding of the gospel as contained in revealed canon, I don’t know what to make of the following scriptures as they pertain to the resurrection.
Alma 11:45
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption.
Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (possible explanation: after every probation there is necessarily an intermediate judgment, where you are judged for what you did in that probation. Also, people don’t necessarily die once, e.g. Lazarus)
Is each probation a “dress rehearsal” and then the one immediately preceding the resurrection is the “real deal”? How to you understand these scriptures? Is the Final Judgment not actually final in the Plan of Exaltation?
If each mortal body (robe) we obtain in each probation is to be resurrected, then doesn’t that create a conflict when it’s time to be resurrected? Which body will be resurrected? Am I falsely assuming that the literal body that we died in will be ours in the resurrection? (Possibly—people born with missing limbs will have these restored… from a more complete bodily form, we can only suppose. And think of all the people who have been cremated! But then, what’s the significance of “the graves opening up” if the physical body decaying in the earth won’t be our literal resurrected body?)
I suppose it is possible that only one resurrected “version” of us will come about in the resurrection. But I just don’t understand how multiple probations will still go on if our resurrected bodies and spirits can never be divided again.
After the Millennium starts and people are getting resurrected, is that the end of their multiple probations? Do people perhaps actually have unlimited time in different dimensions to live out as many probations as they want before they are sentenced in judgment and the resurrection that will happen on this earth?
If “their spirits [are united] with their bodies, never to be divided” following resurrection, how will someone post-resurrection have another probation? How will their spirit and body be separated for their spirit to take on a new “robe” and enter another probation?
Does the phrasing “be divided” imply as passive division, so as to say: “your spirit and body won’t be divided, unless you choose it with your agency”? I suppose this is possible.
Is the resurrection a sort of “checkpoint” where people can settle in the kingdom that they’ve made it to? (Or elect to leave their resurrected body to go to this or another earth for more probations?)
I’m very open minded: it would be foolish to think that what we know now in our scriptures even scratches the surface of what the eternal worlds have in store for us.
Any validation or commentary on my ramblings would be much appreciated!
When I first heard Eric & Julie talk about this, I thought it was pretty far out there. But then I saw an additional witness on another website called pure revelations, where its not necessarily ‘The Plan of Salvation,’ but rather “Principle of Eternal Lives.” At the end of the Millennium, God gathers together those who made it to their 3rd & 4th estates, and asks, “who will I make my rulers?” Or noble & great ones? (something like that). At that point, you volunteer if you want to condescend in order to ascend. If you want to get into the weeds of this doctrine, like how many estates are there, that website will blow your hair back.